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Talk:Shadow Broker
General Discussion I changed the bit at the bottom of the page, but I'm not sure if it should even be there. I did not think this was a place for speculation, but if the general consensus is that it should stay I will concede. I also changed some of the wording, and corrected a spelling error because someone had spelled receive as recieve. Am I the only one who remembers the grade school saying: I before E except after C? Spectre J 20:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC) Identity Y'know, all this 'handling of complex information', 'walking the political tightrope' and 'only ever working through agents' stuff makes me wonder if the Broker is some sort of AI. -- Tullis 09:05, 19 January 2008 (UTC) The thought did cross my mind at the begninning, but never really thought about it after that. The Shadow Broker being an AI would make sense. I mean, he probably has information on anybody you could imagine, and it would take an AI, or at least a VI to really sort all that... Maybe it is a group of people, some sort of Illuminati type group. I do not think it is one person. Spectre J 16:48, 19 January 2008 (UTC) It sounds to me like the Shadow Broker may have actually been Sovereign. It would have given Sovereign a chance to gather lots of information about the galaxy in the period of time between when he came back online and the events of Mass Effect, as well as a network of agents and the cash to fund their operations. 207.173.178.2 20:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC) Sovereign, eh? It is a possibility, but I think it is unlikely. That could have been his way of monitoring the galaxies development. He could have set it all up at the start of Council relations, set up a puppet leader, and checked in periodically to see how far along sentient organic life was. I think we will definitely get some more answers in the forthcoming sequels. It is interesting to think of the possibilities, though.Spectre J 21:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC) I have strong reason to believe Sha'ira is directly connected to the Shadow Broker. Either she is the Shadow Broker, her group is the Shadow Broker, or she's very close to the top of the food chain. The following is all speculation, but I believe she's either working independently or with the Council. She and her group (the group I will refer to as the Consort, her I will refer to as Sha'ira so as not to confuse anyone) are located on the Presidium and have access to many important figures. It's stated that most of the visitors to the Presidium end up being clients. The only non-asari acolyte we see is a human female. All the asari we see in the game are attractive females, and aside from the powers of persuasion that come with that alone, asari are telepathic. Remember that they can read anyone's mind if the person is willing? The whole "Consort" setup makes high-ranking diplomats willing to engage in the procedure. Who knows what the asari can look at once they're inside your mind? Maybe the developers did this on purpose, maybe not, but the only asari you have any extensive interactions with is Liara. Liara is "little more than a child," and has spent most of her life alone on digs. She also seems very innocent and it's safe to assume the vision is the only thing she scanned from your mind. Shiala, the asari you meet on Feros, gives you a weird look right after you "mind-meld" and I worry to think what she might have gotten from it, especially if she was still indoctrinated. New paragraph, still me. So let's look over the evidence. The Consort is a group of influential and reputed asari who have access to many high-ranking government members and other individuals (General Septimus is retired, which implies he has much information and experience; who knows what he could have told her? Also, he's probably only the tip of a very huge iceberg, as who knows who else she might have access to?). Their reputation puts them beyond challenge. Also interesting is the way Sha'ira specifically asks you to help her in pacifying someone who is spreading lies about her and HURTING HER REPUTATION, which is very valuable to her, and would be even more valuable to put her beyond questions if she was the Shadow Broker. VERY INTERESTING is Xeltan, the elcor diplomat. He claims his secrets are being spread, and the only person who knows these aside from him is Sha'ira. Septimus gives you some OSD's to give to Xeltan to show him where he got the information. We're never told where he got the information. The Shadow Broker "knows everything" and the only person Xeltan told was Sha'ira. Guess what? Third paragraph to make reading this a bit easier. I read somewhere the trinket she gives you unlocks some Prothean ruins. I never did that, and I thought the relic was a listening device. How else would the Shadow Broker know to contact you right after you got the Cerberus data? Also, think about the cost involved in seeing her. Government officials and other people with sensitive information are generally very rich. People who don't have much sensitive information, like the Alliance recruits in the Embassy Lounge, are not high-paid. This is very obvious to an inquisitive mind, but again, social norms put her beyond question, as anyone could argue "well, we wouldn't want bums going and visiting the respected Consort, now would we?" She has it all planned out, it's almost a perfect setup. Fourth. What do you guys think? 00:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC) I don't think the Shadow Broker is Sovereign, because Fist chose to turn on the Shadow Broker, and give the quarian (Tali) to Saren. I suppose it could be some convoluted mix-up situation, but I seriously doubt it. The Shadow Broker got wind of the deal with Saren even before making the decision to hiring a krogan bounty hunter (Wrex - and even informed him) to deal with the situation, to recover Tali. It wouldn't make sense for this to be an internal struggle between Sovereign and Saren going on here, because the information Tali has, "one step closer to finding the conduit, and one step closer to the return of the reapers", is only equally damaging to them both, and both obviously simply wish that this information be destroyed. I suppose one could argue that they don't know what information Tali has, but even if they didn't, there is a limited possibility to the information she could have. If Sovereign is trying to get information about Saren's actions beneath his scope of perception, it may make sense - but only if Sovereign thought in an emotional manner. The more calculated approach would be direct confrontation of Saren; something Saren would definantly be unable to survive. Sovereign probably woudn't expect Saren to be able to overcome his indoctrination without him knowing. I doubt a powerful 50,000+ year old AI would act in such an uncalculated manner as to send a variable unknown (the bounty hunter) to rescue Tali, and would prefer assassination with returned proof - but not from a variable unknown, but from something he has fully indoctrinated. Edit: It just occurred to me that the Shadow Broker hired Wrex to save Tali, but not to ensure she got to the Shadow Broker -- seems like merely exposure to the council was its objective. The weird look: probably never mind-melded to a human before, probably also wondering 'did it work?' -- 'She messed up my mind!' Sha'ira's reputation as the would-be Shadow Broker would probably not have any affect on her reputation as the Consort. In fact, her reputation as the Consort would be more important to her if she was not the Shadow Broker, because the Shadow Broker would be the one judging her. You are presumedly revealed the private information in the OSD's for Xeltan; if you chose the renegade path options, Shepard will state that "it's easy to find out" that information. It's probably some personal matter, like he has some strange fetish, or has a family member that tarnishes his political appearance. The Shadow Broker probably monitored the information & communication surrounding the Cerberus faction, and possibly came to the assumption that it was you attacking them, instead of any other accounted-for element. You get the message whether or not you have Sha'ira's trinket. Also, due to her full schedule, for example, booking you several months in line, I doubt Sha'ira would have the time to have effective extra-citadel monitoring capability. An AI, a person, or a group of people, you have yet to encounter is far more likely. It's more likely an asari than a krogan, for example, but even more likely a salarian. The 'salarian possibility' gets credit from Kirrahe's speech about 'holding the line'; he emphasises behind-the-scenes manipulation. Then there's the League of One, who's medallions you recover. Hrm... There is even no page describing the League of One here at the moment, but they are a very interesting, very secretive bunch. The 'salarian way' appears to typically be 'secretive manipulation for the greater good', placing themselves in positions of judgement - that seems to parallel the way of the Shadow Broker. I have the highest confidence that it is that "Banes" character from Dr. Michel, her black mailer. Michel says Anderson would know her, Anderson has you ask Kahokaou, and he says that Banes died with a ship of his a while back. What? Then how does one still find themselves alive and black mailing someone? Although that AI from the signal quest says it is all knowing of the universe, I think the Alliance is behind it. I agree with everyones "Shadow Broker: More than One" theory, and I believe Banes, Kahokaou, and maybe a small fleet of intelligent Alliance members are behind it. It seems like when Kaou said this, he was tryong to cover up the operation that Banes was running. One thing I noticed while I played on my fourth run was this. You know the Asari in Noveria... the one who asks you to talk to Vargas(Binary Helix Guy) about some things? She informs you that when he is uncomfortable he will rub his neck. Kaou did the same thing when he said "Banes? Well... he dided in one of my fleets a while ago." That is my theory, I rely on it quite a bit. 01:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC) There is too small information about him. But to my mind Shadow Broker is a man whom Shepard meets in the Citadele (or can meet, but needn't do this). As in old-fashion detective he must be a little, unnoticeable man, but that who can see and hear more than something. And probably he is a human. Bet he is the bartender from embassies. Best thing to be here. If I was Shadow Broker, I'd work there. To another hand... Shadow Broker can be the man, or better to say the persone that famous and nobody can imagine that he or she can do such stuff. For this case Shaira is the best candidate for this. But I think, that it cannot be she. 08:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC) My First Time Playing through, I wondered around lost in on the citadel and quite by accident discovered the identity of the shadow broker. It has been more than a year since I accomplished it, and I've been trying to recreate the results ever since, but have been ass of yet unsuccessful. I at one point in time spoke with the volus patron in the market place, who directed me back to barla von. Who then admitted to knowing the identity of the shadow broker. Finally, I was told to go to the Embassies where there sitting in the middle of everything is the shadow broker - the Assari Receptionist. "Busy?" you ask "well, yes . . . " She admits it, but I don't recall much more than that as it has been some time. If anyone else figures out how, be sure to post it here. -Dread Pirate Roberts 12NOV08 :The 'busy?' and 'well, yes' are normal responses from her. You can get those right after you first walk out of Udina's office. As for the bit with Barla Von, all I've ever gotten out of him is that he thinks it's more than one person. As for me, I just had an interesting idea. :There is no Shadow Broker. :Nobody ever deals with him, they just deal with his agents. In the game, you yourself encounter no less than three shadow broker agents, including two on the Citadel. Everyone assumes there's a "man in the middle", coordinating everything...but what if there's not? What if it's just a sort of well hidden communications network, and all those "agents"...are it? Be kinda like Barla Von's idea that it's more than one person, except that in this case, the people that make it up don't realize that, and just think they're agents of it. Seems like the kinda headgame the bioware types would go for... Graptor 01:55, 4 July 2009 (UTC) I personally like the idea that the Shadowbroker is some kind of AI, perhaps even a Reaper designed one, meant to keep tabs on the races and prevent a particular one from gaining too much power. 15:54, December 12, 2009 (UTC) :That is an interesting theory. My only question would be: If the Shadow Broker is in fact a Reaper designed AI meant to keep tabs on the races, why then would the Shadow Broker (an agent of the Reapers) place a hit out on Fist for working with Saren (another agent of the Reapers)? SpartHawg948 21:17, December 13, 2009 (UTC) :Hmmmm, perhaps the Shadow Broker and Sovereign are not in contact with eachother? Bad excuse, but possible. Or maybe he thought it would be better to keep his cover, as it would be very odd for him not to punish a traitor... this comes to another question; is the Shadowbroker a recent development, or has the position been more or less filled for a very long time? If the latter, it has to be either a computer or a group Wolfcp11 03:15, December 15, 2009 (UTC) With the AI theory, I think that it would be plausible if it had something to do with the com buoys. I mean, all important information worth transmitting goes through them. What if it flags important information that pertains to the Broker's function. That would explain alot, in my opinion. --LBCCCP 00:57, December 22, 2009 (UTC) :That is a really interesting idea. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out to be the case, at least the comm buoy part of it. Not bad... SpartHawg948 01:00, December 22, 2009 (UTC) Wow I can't believe what I just saw/removed. I'm quite frankly disappointed, mostly with myself, although plenty of people have made edits here in the time since the bit in question was added. Under the heading of "Known Associates of the Shadow Broker" was "Unknown Agent". I can't even begin to describe what I felt when I saw that. Mostly a combination of sadness and hilarity. If they're an "unknown" agent (ie we don't know who the hell it is) then it can't really be a "known" agent of the Shadow Broker, can it? :P SpartHawg948 09:20, December 20, 2009 (UTC) : Maybe they were using the logic that it was a known unknown? :P -- Stormwaltz 19:51, December 20, 2009 (UTC) ::Well, if Rumsfeld says so, I'll allow it! One of the best bosses I ever had! SpartHawg948 22:44, December 20, 2009 (UTC) : I'm not sure that this is the editorial faux pas it is believed to be. "Known Associates of the Shadow Broker" merely means those entities that are known by us to be associates of the Shadow Broker. The "Unknown agent" is "unknown" to us insofar as we know very few details about this agent; what we do know, however, is that this agent is an associate of the Shadow Broker. : Nonetheless, perhaps "unknown" was an unfortunate choice of description. Maybe "Nondescript agent" would be better, but that suffers from sounding clumsy. Any suggestions?--Heliossoileh 13:59, January 7, 2010 (UTC) ::What about "unidentified agent"? --Tullis 15:09, January 7, 2010 (UTC) :::That's a good suggestion.--Heliossoileh 15:28, January 7, 2010 (UTC) Shadow Broker couldn't be Sovereign... In Mass Effect: Redemption (obviously set some time after Sovereign's attack on the Citadel) the Shadow Broker is hired out by the Collectors to get Shepard's body. Now, if the Shadow Broker was Sovereign this couldn't possibly have taken place. My best guess is that in a situation somewhat like Knights of the Old Republic II, the Shadow Broker (Goto in KOTOR 2) is some kind of AI who works for an unknown purpose to stabilise and monitor the galaxy's information. Remember when talking to Barla Von, he mentions that no matter the amount of information that the Shadow Broker trades, the political situation is always stable? This is almost an exact copy of Goto's job/role in the Star Wars universe. --ElitePinecone 02:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC) I think the Shadow Broker is????? I've got a theory about it. That the Shadow Broker is a Neutral Geth or advanced A.I. (It would make sense since the Shadow Broker can move data and manipulate information so quickly.) :Well, I'd be inclined to say it's not a "neutral geth" (whatever that is) seeing as all the geth are linked in the collective with one notable exception. As for an advanced AI, that theory has been brought up before and does seem to be one of the more plausible ones. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. SpartHawg948 05:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC) What about the Illusive Man? he seems to fit the role Gboy4 12:39, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :Well, other than the fact that the Shadow Broker was willing to give out information that was used to destroy several Cerberus outposts and operations, and did this in order to get information on Cerberus, and seemed pretty determined/desperate to get the information about Cerberus. Other than that he seems to fit the role. :P SpartHawg948 21:15, January 15, 2010 (UTC) :A red herring, perhaps? this would A) Fool the Commander into believing that he has dooped Cerberus, and B) Dissuade Shepard from making a connection. I also was considering the Illusive Man as the Shadow Broker, but SpartHawg948 already knows my more firmly held Barla Von theory. Vaile 06:48, January 31, 2010 (UTC) ::One red herring, maybe. But three? 1) The Shadow Broker giving away the locations of important Cerberus sites, then being desperate to get the info gleaned from them. 2) The Shadow Broker working for the Collectors, attempting to obtain the body of Commander Shepard and hand it over to the Collectors, which puts the Shadow Broker and the Illusive Man 100% at odds with each other, and 3) When Shepard asks the Illusive Man about getting Liara back on the squad, the Illusive Man flat-out refuses, saying that she is/was an associate of the Shadow Broker and cannot be trusted. That'd be an awful lot of red herrings, and some very costly and counter-productive ones, to boot. SpartHawg948 06:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Point taken, I hadn't taken into consideration mentionings of him in ME2. But one thing no one is expecting... is a 4 foot tall volus. Vaile 07:17, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :::That would be true if it was just a 4 foot tall volus. But if the 4 foot tall volus in question is also one of the top agents of the Shadow Broker, that kind of changes things. If you're looking for the Shadow Broker, the top agent for the Shadow Broker on the Citadel has to factor into your reasoning regardless of height and race. SpartHawg948 07:42, January 31, 2010 (UTC) ::Of course, but such a powerful man would be able to not only see most investigations coming, but make any and all evidence disappear as well, because I'm sure the Shadow Broker not only trades in information, but controls it as well. Vaile 08:09, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :::You seem to be ascribing omnipotent power to the Shadow Broker. He/She/It may or may not see the investigations coming (and I'm not talking investigations, I'm talking assassinations. Liara doesn't want to bring him in for questioning, she wants to kill him.) but even if the Shadow Broker sees it coming, that doesn't mean they'll be able to do jack crap about it. Trading and control of information doesn't help when it gets down to the nitty gritty. After all, trading and control of information didn't allow the Shadow Broker to get Shepard's corpse, did it? I'm sure the Shadow Broker knew that Cerberus was also after the Commander. Fat lot of good that information did him! We see who won out there. And it's going to take some time for info to reach the Broker, I doubt he's aware of the details of rapidly changing circumstances. SpartHawg948 09:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC) No, not at all. I think if Liara got the Shadow Broker in a corner, he'd be toast. But the information trade has to be a bustling business. Information is power, and for good reason. While the Shadow Broker buys and sells pieces of information (that he can manipulate, mind you), he gets more information than anyone. With that information, any number of tools are at his disposal: Blackmail, favors, bribery, etcetera. If he get's a good word that a high-profile Asari on Illium is looking for him, he just needs to dispense some false leads, "and like that: he's gone..." :None of which is guaranteed to work. He had an agent right next to Liara planting false leads to keep her from finding him. What happened? Liara (with help from Shep) caught on and offed his agent. So much for the false leads... And all the "tools", bribery, favors, blackmail, whatnot, are contingent upon other people playing along. All it takes is someone saying "no" (like Shepard refusing to hand over Cerberus data to him in the first game) and all that information he has is for naught. Blackmail, favors, bribes, etc didn't keep Fist from attempting to jump ship and work for Saren. The Shadow Broker couldn't fix that situation with information, he had to hire a bounty hunter. Again, for all the Shadow Broker's information and power, he has been thwarted rather spectacularly by people who are similarly situated in terms of info and power. That's all I'm saying. No one is invincible or omnipotent, and the Shadow Broker is demonstrably not either. SpartHawg948 09:40, January 31, 2010 (UTC)